tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post7429452059198787037..comments2023-10-23T22:07:07.535+01:00Comments on London Banker: Protect the Bondholders?London Bankerhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13358082683340132378noreply@blogger.comBlogger36125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-63083271332097734892011-07-13T11:25:35.816+01:002011-07-13T11:25:35.816+01:00article in fit quite interesting to read so that a...article in fit quite interesting to read so that adds new knowledge to myAndyhttp://www.streetdirectory.co.id/businessfinder/indonesia/company/3133/Restoran_Timur_Tengah/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-31486902909153120592011-07-08T23:52:59.492+01:002011-07-08T23:52:59.492+01:00"Blessed are the bondholders?"
"We..."Blessed are the bondholders?"<br /><br />"Well, you can't take these things literally. He's obviously referring to any obscenely wealthy holder of excessively risky financial products."Knute Rifehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02345893660115107054noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-75536610208528854622011-07-08T08:12:24.283+01:002011-07-08T08:12:24.283+01:00Thank you for an excellent post. If you don't...Thank you for an excellent post. If you don't mind, I have linked the post to my blog. I believe that without political and social awareness of the issues at hand today, change will be hard to come by.Timothy Tanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03480238144837311645noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-15140316543968120062011-07-05T03:41:15.144+01:002011-07-05T03:41:15.144+01:00@ LB
Summary: the Banking system cannot and will ...@ LB<br /><br />Summary: the Banking system cannot and will not be reformed, a priori, until it burns and burns beyond the roots. It is predatory and sycophantic criminal organization that cannot lose as it has eliminated Risk through corrupt influences of captured "leadership".<br /><br />Here is an interesting conversation for you to read, if you will:<br /><br />http://s6.zetaboards.com/Bill_Still_Reforum/topic/8736146/1/<br /><br />My summary:<br /><br />1. Usury is a rotten system - when put in the hands of lesser men -<br />as it invariably occurs.<br /><br />2. Natural Bankers demands a Risk Free environment so he captures<br />political "leadership" and just tells them what to do<br /><br />3. The political "leadership" are eager to do the bidding of Banks<br />as it allows them to appear elite and washed while warmly draped in<br />wealth and power.<br /><br />and:<br /><br />Banks:<br /><br />1. Banks are given the privilege of being Commercial Private<br />Enterprise<br /><br />2. Banks are given the privilege of being protected by Government<br />by all means even by the Military as well as receiving wealth as a<br />transfer from the people<br /><br />3. Banks have the privilege of having Policy written for them so<br />suit the protection of their asset values as well as to increase<br />their asset accumulations.<br /><br />4. Banks are privileged in all matters and are rated as a priority<br />to all other matters.<br /><br />5. Usury centralizes wealth to a singularity or to the Banks, by<br />function and design.<br /><br />6. Usury has been declared illegal many times and banned by Many<br />Nation States over the past ~3 millennium.<br /><br />8. Banks, political "leadership" and bureaucracy is a sycophantic<br />relationship.<br /><br />9. Banks, political "leadership" and bureaucracy are a predator and<br />criminal organization.<br /><br />10. Banks, political "leadership" and bureaucracy are also agents<br />of the socio-economic oxidization processes.<br /><br />Summary: Banks cannot be reformed. Banks can only be closed".<br /><br />And, the current Banking system must be shut down and replaced with a credit distribution system that does not centralizes wealth through debt.<br /><br />This can easily be initiated by removing all the privileges granted to them through Policy and Access.<br /><br />A good start but I am not holding my breathe.PeterJBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09934906890179823815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-21565815368046510422011-07-04T10:56:16.507+01:002011-07-04T10:56:16.507+01:00Ah, LB, it's great to see some fire returning....Ah, LB, it's great to see some fire returning.<br /><br />I haven't got a login per the list, but I followed your posts avidly back when RGE was free. <br /><br />I like your new site. <br /><br />C<br /><br />CounterpointerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-6038071875503103492011-07-04T01:50:46.676+01:002011-07-04T01:50:46.676+01:00@Nils and Merkel, Your preaching here is not helpf...@Nils and Merkel, Your preaching here is not helpful. Do you have a voice and thought of your own?scandiahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07924260428840006237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-9496473181555065492011-07-03T10:47:42.761+01:002011-07-03T10:47:42.761+01:00Hey Merkel,
The full Psalm is:The wicked borrow a...Hey Merkel,<br /><br />The full Psalm is:The wicked borrow and do not repay, but the righteous give generously. In King James translation it is: The wicked borroweth, and payeth not again: but the righteous sheweth mercy, and giveth. <br /><br />How about this random selection:<br />Psalm 37:26:They are always generous and lend freely; their children will be blessed. <br />Psalm 112:5: Good will come to him who is generous and lends freely, who conducts his affairs with justice. <br />Proverd 21:26: All day long he craves for more, but the righteous give without sparing. <br />Mathew 6:12: And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors. <br />Romans 13:8: Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law. <br />Luke 6:34: And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. <br /><br />How about this one:<br /><br />Ecclesiastes 5: There is another serious problem I have seen under the sun. Hoarding riches harms the saver. Money is put into risky investments that turn sour, and everything is lost. In the end, there is nothing left to pass on to one’s children. We all come to the end of our lives as naked and empty-handed as on the day we were born. We can’t take our riches with us. <br /><br />So, who's side are you on?nilysnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-84174919746695215332011-07-03T02:01:07.059+01:002011-07-03T02:01:07.059+01:00All that you have summarized is true. But, the har...All that you have summarized is true. But, the harsh reality is that the ability to protest will be growingly hampered in countries where they are most developed or "mature" (this is somewhat facetious). I have no doubt that if the greek protests were taking place in the US, the protesters would most likely be killed or severely injured by the police. This is why it is so crucial that this is first taking place in Europe where there is a tiny bit of citizenship rights left for those that are being affected the most... unfortunate, governments and congresses are useless representatives when they are called on to show their courage to stand up and represent the people they are supposed to be representing. The police is just part of the theater as they are also in cahoots with the government and congresses. Seeing these heads of sate standing and advocating democratic values and principles is abhorring...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-37952229262555830762011-06-28T05:56:27.889+01:002011-06-28T05:56:27.889+01:00You lost me when you veered off into a gratuitous ...You lost me when you veered off into a gratuitous shot at HFT and dark pools (btw, dark pools were invented to counter information leakage to HFT, they are the OPPOSITE of HFT. Unfortunately, they have the word "dark" in their name, so they sound evil, though not quite as evil as "naked access"). I'll bet you 5 pounds that HFT, in its entirety last year, made less than 1/20th of the profits of just one <br />TBTF bank's OTC trading profits at fat protected spreads. HFT has been a wonderful cover for the OTC markets during this crisis, deflecting attention from them. Speaking of market clearing events, if the Tobin tax is passed, it will generate exactly zero additional taxes from HFT, as the politicians discover that HFT margins per trade are about 5% of the proposed tax. Spreads will widen considerably, trading will be more expensive, market makers will get a windfall, HFT will disappear, Vanguard will lose the 40% reduction in trading costs they've been publicizing. HFT has become a pathetic innocent bystander, defenseless against the populist steamroller. There are going to be a lot of casualties as the market "clears". C'est la vie. But you, of all people, are capable of understanding what's really going on here.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-44819360557502563462011-06-28T03:24:18.046+01:002011-06-28T03:24:18.046+01:00I find it very interesting that the FSA would desc...I find it very interesting that the FSA would describe itself as protecting the bondholders. I would have thought "banks" might have been a more accurate descriptor.<br /><br />Since your post, both David Cameron and Mervyn King have come out requesting that banks disclose their exposure (gross and net) to Greece as well as their exposure to other banks. This is the first chink in the armor of protect the banks.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11316888485290662469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-23876074221767199712011-06-27T12:25:30.094+01:002011-06-27T12:25:30.094+01:00what happens if Greek pension funds are among the ...what happens if Greek pension funds are among the largest holders of GGBs...??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-69800081773742763552011-06-27T09:22:44.341+01:002011-06-27T09:22:44.341+01:00You have to have an exit strategy in any deal or s...You have to have an exit strategy in any deal or scheme and I fear we are experiencing their exit strategy. At last count, we have had at least four monetary systems in the past 100 years and the ECB could lay claim as a fifth- a central bank without democratic control or sovereign treasury. <br /><br />Bondholders are taking control of real assets at real prices and the Dutch plan for a Greek asset privatisation commission is a sign of things to come.<br /><br />Unfortunately, I am not too optimistic we will see “blood in the streets”; too many are dependent upon the teat of government largesse.<br /><br />And don’t forget Eastenders is on 86 times a week and, we can’t miss that.Juno Monetahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09134269914349216646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-7782692146255058912011-06-27T09:20:33.661+01:002011-06-27T09:20:33.661+01:00"Protect the bondholders.
Perhaps I am naive..."Protect the bondholders.<br /><br />Perhaps I am naive, but I did not realise that the FSA saw this as its primary mission until someone at the FSA bluntly told me so"<br /><br />Can this be true? A group of UK retail bondholders has been trying to interest FSA in protecting them against what is in effect a fraudulent and, under English law, illegal tender by Bank of Ireland for some of its PIBS. We have been unable to get past a form letter from the august institution telling us to get lost. Could you please put us in touch with the person at FSA who told you that protecting bondholders is their mission?<br /><br />here's a link to our last attempt to communicate with the FSA:<br />http://boards.fool.co.uk/open-letter-to-the-fsa-re-former-bw-pibs-12294270.aspx?sort=postdateHarryhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18401404610146245362noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-79378143249258471192011-06-26T18:56:05.468+01:002011-06-26T18:56:05.468+01:00Yep had this conversation at a dinner party last n...Yep had this conversation at a dinner party last night, thanks LB<br /><br />Matt, your last sentence is right on.<br /><br />jo6pacAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-7693096719098788312011-06-26T08:29:32.489+01:002011-06-26T08:29:32.489+01:00And so it is across the globe and undoubtedly thro...And so it is across the globe and undoubtedly throughout the ages. widespread default is far too disruptive to be accepted, as it shows the flaws inherent in the system and by the actions of its operators. <br /><br />We only forsake the economy for the monetary unit when it is politically expediant to do so. That is, when the debt is primarily owed to outside parties and there exists a general anymosity to those parties. Much better to debase the underlying unit and pretend that the system is functioning than allow default and prove otherwise. We're only human after all.<br /><br />In a world of financial predation and expontntial debt, default is our last defense left against slavery.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10399409460629073027noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-59739148777097892132011-06-25T06:23:14.171+01:002011-06-25T06:23:14.171+01:00The system will not reset until it has failed for ...The system will not reset until it has failed for various psychological and greed from the politicians and the citizenry alike. <br />Until then, work to improve your putting and short game and maybe, just MAYBE, if your lucky, you will die in your sleep peacefully.MegaSpeculatorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04999820985924629873noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-1608628184508032022011-06-24T20:19:23.781+01:002011-06-24T20:19:23.781+01:00It's the Blair-Brown bequest, innit?
My fear ...It's the Blair-Brown bequest, innit?<br /><br />My fear is that the Coalition government has not really appreciated the scale of the problem. In which case we're a' doomed, ah tell ye, doomed.deariemenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-78821868457715807172011-06-24T19:21:50.811+01:002011-06-24T19:21:50.811+01:00Who are the bondholders and why need they be prote...Who are the bondholders and why need they be protected?<br /><br />Sure, some are "rich" guys who need no sympathy re haircuts.<br /><br />How many are aggregated "little" poeple?<br /><br />Do we have a social system worth saving?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-63380926711516703752011-06-24T16:27:12.652+01:002011-06-24T16:27:12.652+01:00"There is hard work to be done, but the groun..."There is hard work to be done, but the ground is fertile for those who will make the effort to seed and nurture the reforms required. The Vickers/Indepdendent Commission on Banking review and various efforts by HM Treasury and the Bank of England are all moving in the right direction..."<br /><br />The heavy lifting is being done by Los Indignatos and in Syntagma Square. When Papandreou, for example, can change his government to produce his desired vote outcome, democracy is a sham. Still there are political limits to economic maneuver. As was shown in Argentina. Our question is, how does this end? I don't share your optimism.MarcoPolohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03352448231722876114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-24086649799964429062011-06-24T16:07:02.220+01:002011-06-24T16:07:02.220+01:00I'm not an expert but I'm not sure what ro...I'm not an expert but I'm not sure what role the FSA has in the Greek sovereign debt crisis. Does the FSA hold Greek debt? Does it regulate international finance?<br /><br />I can understand the ECB wanting to protect bondholders as it has a very large exposure itself. I have read that when Greece defaults, the ECB immediately becomes insolvent. Hence their actions may have nothing to do with protecting wicked capitalists and everything to do with saving their own skin.<br /><br />Sure we have the democratic right to change the rules of international finance, but the financiers also have the right to exact heavy interest payments for their loans - if they lend at all. What would have happened if the UK government had not been able to sell £4.75bn of debt earlier this week? <br /><br />Also I think that your analogy with Iceland is a little off. The Icelandic government did not default on its debts. Before the crisis its debt was under 30% of GDP and it was running a healthy budget surplus. Now its credit rating is just above junk, its currency and stock market have collapsed (along with the major banks) and it has had to appeal to the IMF, ECB and the Russian government for loans. A fine way to "...protect the future of your children and your neighbours...". And the losers may have been "...faceless, pitiless and stateless bondholders." but they were also local governments, police services etc. in the UK.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-35314914319035553462011-06-24T13:37:11.825+01:002011-06-24T13:37:11.825+01:00It is good to hear that you begin to see reality, ...It is good to hear that you begin to see reality, so, in celebration I sought and deliver here some wise words from before yet:<br /><br />"The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks."<br /><br />John Dalberg Lord Acton<br /><br />You see LB, there is nothing new going on here that hasn't gone on for almost 3 millennia, or so, which is course the symbiotic relationships between political, bureaucratic and banking "leadership" which is etched as human behaviour into written history; nothing.<br /><br />It is not merely a probability that today's circumstances will lead to revolution and civil unrest, it now appears mandatory that the global system - demographically expressed - must destroy itself in order to purge the excesses of dishonest and corrupt policy and regulation that has been injected into Law, as heroin into the veins.<br /><br />The problems are well known, to some, but the solution is neigh impossible without the experiences of the ultimate pain being shared amongst all and sundry; humility will be necessary for the next step.PeterJBhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09934906890179823815noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-8807073099702895312011-06-24T06:59:33.166+01:002011-06-24T06:59:33.166+01:00Many people have known for several years that ther...Many people have known for several years that there's just too much debt.<br /><br />Economic growth will not come. The factors of production are not in place.<br /><br />If the FSA is subconsciously protecting bondholders, it must understand that the game is over in the medium-term. Maybe even in the short-term.<br /><br />If the man on the street is able to perceive the above, why can't the FSA? Are they not competent enough?<br /><br />Best wishes,<br /><br />Accidental EcologistAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-56110229929573913092011-06-24T06:20:45.635+01:002011-06-24T06:20:45.635+01:00Not sure what the difference is between your post,...Not sure what the difference is between your post, that paints a pretty convincing picture of corruption, and your comment, that then denies that the supervisors have become corrupt. Sure they are good people doing a terribly difficult job, but does that preclude them from falling into the definition of corrupt?mohalahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06258668905726976598noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-9974707024045928432011-06-23T23:16:02.306+01:002011-06-23T23:16:02.306+01:00London Banker,
You have just described what hap...London Banker,<br /><br /> You have just described what happens in virtually any regulatory entity,or organization.I suppose you could describe it as systemic entropy,as every "organism" grows old and ineffective...or loses focus to its founders intent,although many times the "regulatory body" agenda begins to be designed to prevent market forces from upsetting currently profitable enterprise.[I have watched it happen.] <br /> I would imagine things will continue to get "papered over",and the kabuki dance will continue...until it cant.power and influence will be washed away by forces so powerful that they will shake the foundations of western civilization. <br /> I believe we are heading into a phase-change that will fundamentally change the way our world works.This dramatic popular uprising starting in Greece might well be the "Lighting of the fuse"that signals the start of this phase-change.<br /> I am not near wise enough to understand where it will lead,but the concentration of wealth to the degree that has occurred,and the manner in which it was done,as well as blatant "crony-capitalism"where the state decides who wins and who[the taxpayer] pays, strikes at the heart of the system.It destroys the fundamental belief that one lives under a rule of law.And that WILL destroy a system of governance.<br /><br /> I need to be productive[g]<br /><br /> Bee good,or<br /> Bee careful<br /><br /> snuffyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-912107698547747613.post-29598434359884808932011-06-23T17:34:55.971+01:002011-06-23T17:34:55.971+01:00@ All
I want to make very clear that I am not sugg...@ All<br />I want to make very clear that I am not suggesting malfeasance or corruption at the FSA, ECB or anywhere else. These are good people - for the most part - who are struggling to do a difficult job well. The system is set up to self-reinforce the interests of those with the most assets and power, and that leaves the rest of us on the sidelines. It is the self-reinforcing dynamic of the system as it works in practice that is the problem, not the people in it. <br /><br />For example, when regulations are put out for comment, it is the banks with the biggest compliance departments and most pricey lawyers who make the most compelling case for regulations that favour their narrow interest. They will almost always prefer regulations that create a competitive bias by imposing higher costs or complexity on smaller players. Over time, the system reinforces them, and freezes everyone else out. When their self-interest becomes parasitical, unbalanced and dangerous to the rest of the economy, there is no adequate representation or sophisticated player with sufficient interest to counter the threat and prevent harm.<br /><br />Similarly, when there is a job opening, it will be most appealling to someone already established and experienced in the industry. He or she will find it difficult to resist the social pressure to accommodate what seems like reasonable pressure to relieve present pain that is easily measured at the cost of future, theoretical social gain that will always remain difficult to substantiate.<br /><br />Especially in a crisis, when many regulators have been struggling to contain damage for three years, it will always be easier to go along with assurances from the bankers that "a little more time" will help them put their balance sheets in order and prepare for a default. Since the EU periphery has been on the verge of default for quite long enough now that everyone gets it, even China, that story seems a bit dog-earred. But if you are the regulator who will have to face the BBC or the Parliamentary inquiry or even resign in disgrace for any losses actually realised in black and red, maybe it might still be compelling to "extend and pretend" just a bit more.London Bankerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13358082683340132378noreply@blogger.com